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9:26 PM (23 hours ago)

1. There is no "third" way. If we do not have honest trade, it will be dishonest.

What is the “third way” to which you reference? That would be the other way besides dishonest trade, or honest trade.

The title, and point #1 have as their premise, that trade is dishonest, and this is the (or a) foundational problem of society and/or economy.  You then list the ways that the church, and an obedience to Christ as Lord individually, and corporately is the solution to this problem. 

In summary, my diagnosis of the problem with trade being honest is that credit is being issued by an oligopoly (the Fed, and the entire financial/governmental complex that executes the approval and expenditure of credit issued by the Fed).

The problem is the bending and distortion of market forces according to the will of a banking-government oligopoly, instead of the market being driven organically/multi-centrically by the desires of a nation populated by a holy/Godly/Judeo-Christian people.

The problem is not that money is “nothing”, although the Fed issues credit/money when it owns nothing.

Rather, the problem is that credit is being issued by men who have no justifiable right to unilaterally/irrevocably authorize the expenditure of labor and resources to produce capital goods, to produce goods and services of their indirect choice.  The problem is no more complex than the fact that we, in the creation of the Fed, have institutionalized/formalized the putting men up as kings/dictators/tyrants. 

The fallout of our decision to give the Fed the control of issuing credit is that the degrees of freedom authorized by God to men who follow His way and Word, have been limited by the small, but highly leveraged action of a few men. 

The Fed, in essence authorizes the entire food chain of economic activity.  The articulation/specificity of their control is small, but the bias of their hand can be seen throughout the entirety of the economy.  And, while subtle, they are in essence, and to a degree, the controllers of every man on earth. 

Given their limited wisdom of man, giving control of investments/credit to a group of men will produce a limited prosperity compared to the abundance that is available through allowing the invisible hand of God work in the hearts of individuals committed to the bringing of His Kingdom on Earth.

  Prosperity will maximize for the group, and individual, when every men works freely to attain His goals of prosperity and goodness in each of their individual lives.  This will never happen as long as the Fed is given overarching rule to dispense credit as it deems fit/right/wise.  Even in the best case scenario, rulers will misjudge, and the errors will be only slowly corrected compared to the finesse of the market driven by self-interested individuals.

2. It will never be easier, or a better time, to exert ourselves to mount reforms. In the near term, we will never have more surplus time and wealth, or more freedom to speak and act than we have now. As the crisis nears, the men at the top will be come ever more desperate to control those who wish to "shrug" or escape the plunder.

3. Most underestimate how thoroughly the controllers control the institutions. There is no power on earth greater than their current power, except the Holy Spirit working through Saints to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ and extend His victorious and gracious rule over all nations. Only the Church can speak and act with sufficient authority, bravery, and efficacy.

4. Not even the Powers That (shouldn't) Be totally control events. They cannot stop the IF THEN of God, the consequences of violating moral and economic laws.

5. If we do not roll back the moral and financial crisis, there is no other way to prevent or forestall loss of life, liberty, and family stewardship of property.

6. Only a Covenantal Oath is strong enough to motivate men to be moral and to make the sacrifices necessary to turn things around. This is the essential means men have to illustrate the goodness, faithfulness, strength, and justice of God. Not even Satan's secret societies can sustain power and influence without self-maledictory, covenantal oaths. The Church must re-teach this oath concept and come alongside businesses to train them in this as a foundation for the coming honest-measure trading that must recover.

7. The fundamental lie is that the fiat-money central banking systems of all nations now owe, and are owed - something instead of nothing. When you have US Dollars, you have nothing.

John, regarding point #7.  You have embedded a contradiction in your argument by declaring both #6 with #7 true.  In #6 you declare that the “Oath” and keeping of it is the foundation of the stable/strong/prosperous society. Money is fundamentally an oath or covenant.  

Of course the money/tokens/scrip issued by the Fed issues has no intrinsic material/exchange value commensurate with the market exchange rate of value for these notes. 

But, those notes come into existence by a covenant/contract/commitment to repay value. 

The covenant is denominated in dollars, which is a unit of value that is floating, as determined by the group, by market consensus, but it is  not “nothing”. 

A covenant/belief/custom/habit may be intangible/abstract but it is not “nothing”.  In fact, as you note, in #6, honoring covenants is the foundation of society and its restoration. 

You choose to mix frames in your argument against fiat money to prove your point that the US dollar is “nothing”. 

Frame 1: You first note that the Fed issues credit, to banks, but that the credit so issued does not have any collateral or redemptive alternative behind it (i.e. it is not gold, and it cannot be redeemed for gold or other real substance held/controlled by the credit issuing agency/The Fed). 

I carefully deny that the Fed issues anything, because I can find no meaning in their words. It all depends on your ability to understand the difference between nothing and something -- a mountain with a hole in the ground.

Frame 2: The notes that are issued by the Fed (which have no collateral/no intrinsic value/no market generated drive to create such an entity) are then used as representations/symbols of value/medium of exchange by the market.  Every transaction using these notes is based on faith and an implied covenant with the society/market to redeem that note with goods/services.

The question is really, “Where in the system is there a lie?”  “Where has there been a break in covenant/faith?” 

In answer to this question, I would say, that to the extent that the credit issuing power of the Fed has been used to give authorization for unGodly activities, that the faith/covenant/trust of the market/society/people has been betrayed, and power given to the enemy (by an enemy authorized by our own hands/voice) to destroy us from within.

We act like the lie is true, like the govt held title that it could transfer to the Fed -- as if the Fed could own the imaginary moneys it loans to others so as to claim the rent as earnings.

The second lie: That men can judge the economic vitality of the nation/world and issue credit in quantities exactly commensurate with the need and willingness of the people to work for future expansion.

Remember how we showed how this would not be possible for finite men, and even if it was, the world could not afford the man-hours it would require. Nor could there be  source of authority to enforce the laws requires from any individual or majority.

You argue that because the money/notes/symbols issued by the Fed is/are not intrinsically valuable that therefore trade is not honest, and ultimately that this is a/the fundamental problem with society/the market/the character of the nation.

It is my argument that you have focused your argument in the wrong direction. 

The money that people exchange is de facto representative of value. 

The value given to money is floating, in that there is no central standard against which both parties can judge the value of the money and judge the value of the goods and services. 

Rather, the individuals enter into mutually acceptable exchange covenants.  There is no “intrinsic value” in anything, including gold.

  There is no standard upon which absolutely “honest” trade can be conducted.  Ultimately trade rests totally upon agreement of value for value, and seldom (never) does that trade involve trading gold for gold, trade is always about trading apples and oranges, and the valuation of the two is always individually determined.

That is, each person gives value to objects and actions.  Money as a tradable note symbolizing the right to take ownership, by virtue of the fact that it was given in exchange for a contract or performance of valuable service.  Notes are not “nothing”.  Agreements to take possession of a note that is widely accepted as a contract to represent value, is not “nothing”.  The possession of a note representing societal contract to take possession of goods/services is not “nothing”.

In short, I think you would get more traction/resonance in your campaign for honest trade/honest money, if you focused on the fact that men have not kept their oaths to repay value with value because of the Fed’s policy of loaning into existence media of exchange to parties with little credible ability to keep their contracts to repay.

There are many valid criticisms that one could levy against the Federal Reserve/Fiat Money system.  But, a declaration that money is “nothing” because it is not tangible is not the best criticism.  Money is a contract to give value when presented with such a note, recognizing that possession of the note represented having already produced value, or having contracted to produce value. 

Money can be exchanged and make the transition from being a representation of general value (currency) to the price for possession of an item of specific value (goods/services) as judged by an individual.  None of this concept and trust that money holds a representation of value requires a tangible commensurate intrinsic value substance for it to be the representation of general value. 

Granted, a system that offers  100% redemption in gold according to current exchange rate, will tend to reduce the rate of printing of money without a justifiable expectation of the markets, and bankers, meeting the terms of that contract.

A contract (in particular, money) is only worthless if the parties committed to meet the terms of the contract have on intention of filling that contract, or renege on that promise after having made it. 

The notes, the bills, the currency, are in effect symbols used to represent the contract.  The Fed is simply the first in the line of many men who pass the contract to produce to others in the economy.  The Fed is in the position to issue credit, and hold others responsible to meet their contract, but has no obligation to serve others.  As such, the Fed operates much like a god, creating something out of nothing, and then giving it to others to use.  One could justifiably criticize this societal arrangement, and note that this will have predictably bad effects, because men do not have the wisdom to generate and control at the level of the gods.  It is this one point that you have chosen to identify as the central flaw in the foundation of the economic system.  It is a weak pillar at the very heart/based/foundation of the world economy.  It is a type of worship of false gods, and such idolatry will ultimately prove fatal to its practitioners. 

I do not disagree with the fundamental error of basing an entire planetary wealth representation system on the judgment of limited/fallible/corruptible men.  Rather, I object to your thesis that the money, covenants/contracts/notes traded by men are “nothing”. 

Those notes are representations of oaths/faith/contracts/covenants.  That is not “nothing.  Rather, the error is allowing men to issue credit when then are unworthy. 

These men are judging value on behalf of other men, and their judgment of value will have repercussions of global scope; it will influence the lives of literally all men.  Men do not have the wisdom, empathy, scope of data awareness to make such judgments and optimize the effect in every man’s life.

In essence, money represents a contract, with the various parties in the market playing different (opposite) roles at different times (employer/employee, consumer/producer).  To declare that money is “nothing” is to diminish the substance, reality, and fundamental base upon which creation, economy, society rests – it is all based upon faith. 

To demand that money be turned into a substantial thing which has inherent value, and to call that money the thing which we can now trust is to be party to diminution of the reality, and importance of faith and contract. 

Nevertheless, slightly changing our frame, and noting that we are wresting control of the economic state of the world from the hands of a few men/economic dictators, we are freeing the market to establish its own sense of value.  The market can then expand credit in an ad hoc basis as groups coalesce to pool resources to advance various construction projects which seem to be demanded/desired by the working/consuming public.  In other words, release the market to let the market determine its own priorities for installing capital goods and the associated production of desired goods/services. 

In summary, the error is one of economic dictatorship.  Through subtle mechanisms, the economic landscape has been tilted/biased/shaped to reflect the vision/desires/morality of an economic oligopoly, often referred to as “the banksters”.  The system of generating credit de novo/by fiat gives those with control of those monetary levers the power to skew public policy and economic/market direction.  All are affected by the macro-economy.  Seldom does the ruling dictator or planned economy/state perform as well as that which is generated organically by those who are personally/viscerally/individually invested in the effects of the credit issued or borrowed.  And ultimately, the society will work best when left to the control of people who are each personally holding themselves accountable to Truth – and you, as I, believe that Truth is best found in the hidden wisdom of the Holy Bible, by those who have voluntarily put themselves accountable to Jesus as their Lord.

4:53 AM (15 hours ago)

1. There is no "third" way. If we do not have honest trade, it will be dishonest.

What is the “third way” to which you reference? That would be the other way besides dishonest trade, or honest trade.

The title, and point #1 have as their premise, that trade is dishonest, and this is the (or a) foundational problem of society and/or economy.  You then list the ways that the church, and an obedience to Christ as Lord individually, and corporately is the solution to this problem. 

In summary, my diagnosis of the problem with trade being honest is that credit is being issued by an oligopoly (the Fed, and the entire financial/governmental complex that executes the approval and expenditure of credit issued by the Fed).

The problem is the bending and distortion of market forces according to the will of a banking-government oligopoly, instead of the market being driven organically/multi-centrically by the desires of a nation populated by a holy/Godly/Judeo-Christian people.

The problem is not that money is “nothing”, although the Fed issues credit/money when it owns nothing.

Rather, the problem is that credit is being issued by men who have no justifiable right to unilaterally/irrevocably authorize the expenditure of labor and resources to produce capital goods, to produce goods and services of their indirect choice.  The problem is no more complex than the fact that we, in the creation of the Fed, have institutionalized/formalized the putting men up as kings/dictators/tyrants. 

The fallout of our decision to give the Fed the control of issuing credit is that the degrees of freedom authorized by God to men who follow His way and Word, have been limited by the small, but highly leveraged action of a few men. 

The Fed, in essence authorizes the entire food chain of economic activity.  The articulation/specificity of their control is small, but the bias of their hand can be seen throughout the entirety of the economy.  And, while subtle, they are in essence, and to a degree, the controllers of every man on earth. 

Given their limited wisdom of man, giving control of investments/credit to a group of men will produce a limited prosperity compared to the abundance that is available through allowing the invisible hand of God work in the hearts of individuals committed to the bringing of His Kingdom on Earth.

  Prosperity will maximize for the group, and individual, when every men works freely to attain His goals of prosperity and goodness in each of their individual lives.  This will never happen as long as the Fed is given overarching rule to dispense credit as it deems fit/right/wise.  Even in the best case scenario, rulers will misjudge, and the errors will be only slowly corrected compared to the finesse of the market driven by self-interested individuals.

It is my argument that you have focused your argument in the wrong direction. 

The money that people exchange is de facto representative of value. 

The value given to money is floating, in that there is no central standard against which both parties can judge the value of the money and judge the value of the goods and services. 

Rather, the individuals enter into mutually acceptable exchange covenants.  There is no “intrinsic value” in anything, including gold.

  There is no standard upon which absolutely “honest” trade can be conducted.  Ultimately trade rests totally upon agreement of value for value, and seldom (never) does that trade involve trading gold for gold, trade is always about trading apples and oranges, and the valuation of the two is always individually determined.

That is, each person gives value to objects and actions.  Money as a tradable note symbolizing the right to take ownership, by virtue of the fact that it was given in exchange for a contract or performance of valuable service.  Notes are not “nothing”.  Agreements to take possession of a note that is widely accepted as a contract to represent value, is not “nothing”.  The possession of a note representing societal contract to take possession of goods/services is not “nothing”.

In short, I think you would get more traction/resonance in your campaign for honest trade/honest money, if you focused on the fact that men have not kept their oaths to repay value with value because of the Fed’s policy of loaning into existence media of exchange to parties with little credible ability to keep their contracts to repay.

There are many valid criticisms that one could levy against the Federal Reserve/Fiat Money system.  But, a declaration that money is “nothing” because it is not tangible is not the best criticism.  Money is a contract to give value when presented with such a note, recognizing that possession of the note represented having already produced value, or having contracted to produce value.

Money can be exchanged and make the transition from being a representation of general value (currency) to the price for possession of an item of specific value (goods/services) as judged by an individual.  None of this concept and trust that money holds a representation of value requires a tangible commensurate intrinsic value substance for it to be the representation of general value. 

Granted, a system that offers  100% redemption in gold according to current exchange rate, will tend to reduce the rate of printing of money without a justifiable expectation of the markets, and bankers, meeting the terms of that contract.

A contract (in particular, money) is only worthless if the parties committed to meet the terms of the contract have on intention of filling that contract, or renege on that promise after having made it. 

The notes, the bills, the currency, are in effect symbols used to represent the contract.  The Fed is simply the first in the line of many men who pass the contract to produce to others in the economy.  The Fed is in the position to issue credit, and hold others responsible to meet their contract, but has no obligation to serve others.  As such, the Fed operates much like a god, creating something out of nothing, and then giving it to others to use.  One could justifiably criticize this societal arrangement, and note that this will have predictably bad effects, because men do not have the wisdom to generate and control at the level of the gods.  It is this one point that you have chosen to identify as the central flaw in the foundation of the economic system.  It is a weak pillar at the very heart/based/foundation of the world economy.  It is a type of worship of false gods, and such idolatry will ultimately prove fatal to its practitioners. 

I do not disagree with the fundamental error of basing an entire planetary wealth representation system on the judgment of limited/fallible/corruptible men.  Rather, I object to your thesis that the money, covenants/contracts/notes traded by men are “nothing”. 

Those notes are representations of oaths/faith/contracts/covenants.  That is not “nothing.  Rather, the error is allowing men to issue credit when then are unworthy. 

These men are judging value on behalf of other men, and their judgment of value will have repercussions of global scope; it will influence the lives of literally all men.  Men do not have the wisdom, empathy, scope of data awareness to make such judgments and optimize the effect in every man’s life.

In essence, money represents a contract, with the various parties in the market playing different (opposite) roles at different times (employer/employee, consumer/producer).  To declare that money is “nothing” is to diminish the substance, reality, and fundamental base upon which creation, economy, society rests – it is all based upon faith. 

To demand that money be turned into a substantial thing which has inherent value, and to call that money the thing which we can now trust is to be party to diminution of the reality, and importance of faith and contract. 

Nevertheless, slightly changing our frame, and noting that we are wresting control of the economic state of the world from the hands of a few men/economic dictators, we are freeing the market to establish its own sense of value.  The market can then expand credit in an ad hoc basis as groups coalesce to pool resources to advance various construction projects which seem to be demanded/desired by the working/consuming public.  In other words, release the market to let the market determine its own priorities for installing capital goods and the associated production of desired goods/services. 

In summary, the error is one of economic dictatorship.  Through subtle mechanisms, the economic landscape has been tilted/biased/shaped to reflect the vision/desires/morality of an economic oligopoly, often referred to as “the banksters”.  The system of generating credit de novo/by fiat gives those with control of those monetary levers the power to skew public policy and economic/market direction.  All are affected by the macro-economy.  Seldom does the ruling dictator or planned economy/state perform as well as that which is generated organically by those who are personally/viscerally/individually invested in the effects of the credit issued or borrowed.  And ultimately, the society will work best when left to the control of people who are each personally holding themselves accountable to Truth – and you, as I, believe that Truth is best found in the hidden wisdom of the Holy Bible, by those who have voluntarily put themselves accountable to Jesus as their Lord.

10:09 AM (10 hours ago)

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